Friday Harbor Climbing Enthusiasts Meeting Notes for May 15, 2007

 

Our Mission

To build a public climbing structure to facilitate educational and recreational use on San Juan Island.

 

Present at today meeting

Marc Islam

Mark Hetrick

Pete Kilpatrick

Justin Blevins

 

Agenda

Pros/Cons

Features

Technologies

BIG Questions™

Additional Discussion

Next Steps

Next Meeting Tuesday, May 29th, at 5:30.  Location TBD

 

We met Island Rec to kick off this project.  Without a budget to work with, the ideas just kept coming in.  Keep dreaming big… we’ll get a bigger wall when we’re through!  In addition to the agenda items discussed, we reviewed some manufactures material from Enterprise and reviewed the history of the climbing culture on the island.

 

  1. What are the Pros/Cons of a wall would outweigh the costs?  What are the benefits to the community from the perspective of resources and education?  We may want to back this up with written letters of interest from Springstreet and the public schools?
    1. Cons

                                               i.     The wall may not see immediate use by a large number of people.  While there used to be a culture of climbers 10-15 years ago, that group has grown up and possibly even left the island.

 

                                             ii.     Liability is a chief concern.  Climbing is an inherently dangerous activity.  We are concerned about mitigating both ignorant (improper belay technique, bouldering above safe heights) and immature (roughhousing) activities.

 

    1. Pros

                                               i.     The general consensus is that a climbing wall will become a resource for climbing classes, clubs, and/or individuals.  The wall would be used more if it were a public asset rather than a private facility (either cooperatively run or maintained for profit).

                                             ii.     Bouldering, low-level routes that go across or around the wall, allow individuals to improve their strength, stamina, and climbing skills.  Climbing equipment could be used to allow individuals to climb above safe bouldering height limits.

 

                                            iii.     Classes could be offered by all schools that provide their own supervision to larger groups.  Classes will naturally lead to increased individual use of the wall.

 

                                            iv.     Instructors living on the island, but not associated with a school or club,  could use the wall as a resource for teaching their own classes on climbing, team-building, knot tying among others.

 

                                             v.     An outdoor wall could be built in stages.  We don’t have to do it all at once.  Components could be built in any order, as deemed appropriate and depending on usage:

1.     a shorter, wider wall that allows us to modify the routes (more akin to a climbing gym)

2.     a pinnacle which offers height for building stamina over customizability

3.     a ropes course for facilitating teambuilding activities

4.     a roof over the entire complex, if it is to remain outdoors

 

                                            vi.     An indoor wall could support year-round activities, though it would be limited to the confines of the building and likely require us to adopt a self-sustaining business model.

 

  1. What are the Features we'd like to see in a wall/facility (not in any priority order)
    1. Different angles for strength training
    2. Overhang
    3. Inclined vertical, and inverse inclined walls
    4. Overhangs
    5. 45° wall for 12 feet up to the roof
    6. Corners
    7. Ice Climbing Wall

 

  1. What are some of the Technologies used to build walls these days?
    1. At a minimum, we need a basic wall – flat 3/4” plywood with holds bolted in

 

    1. Autobelay systems allow individuals to climb without assistance from a trained belay

 

    1. Cement, gunnite, chickenwire frame.  Combination of natural and manufactured holds

 

    1. Panels that can be moved around (portable)

 

    1. Professional companies can provide completely installed walls using all of the above technologies for a healthy fee.  Are there 80% solutions?

                                               i.     Enterprise

                                             ii.     Earthtrex

                                            iii.     El Dorado

 

  1. What are the BIG Questions™ that need to be answered sooner than later (eg. location, insurance, maintenance, funding, others?)  Island Rec would likely help us with this list, but we should start it for them...

 

    1. To what degree does the liability exposure for the county dictate whether the wall is indoor or outdoor? 

                                               i.     Sally Kerr discussed this matter at the beginning of the meeting, though we should explore this further.  The skate park limits its liability with signage that posts recommendations, not requirements and operating only from sunrise to sunset.

 

                                             ii.     Pierce County operates Spire Rock largely the same way.

 

    1. To what degree does Island Rec’s insurance policy limit the height of the climbing wall?  How do we get something in writing from the insurance company while we are in the process of gathering our requirements?

 

    1. Do we supply/maintain equipment?

                                               i.     If we require that people supply their own equipment (belay devices, ropes, etc), then people will either need a way to get to the top to set up ropes or else perform a lead climb in order to set up their ropes.  Requiring people to bring their own equipment will reduce the number of people that use the wall.  Requiring that people perform a lead climb to set up ropes will reduce the number of people that use the wall even further.

 

                                             ii.     If we supply the equipment, more people will use the wall, but we take on several additional issues:

1.     risk that the equipment will fail. 

2.     risk that the equipment will not be used in the recommended or even a safe manner.

 

  1. Additional Discussion
    1. Justin gave a brief description of Western Washington University’s indoor climbing facility

                                               i.     purchased by WWU to showcase an Enterprise product.

                                             ii.     Public Facility (non-students can use it for a fee). 

                                            iii.     Belay Certification required for climbing above 12’

1.     $6 one-time fee for belay certification

                                            iv.     Maximum of 50 people at any time

                                             v.     Staff on hand to facilitate and enforce rules, not necessarily trained to enforce proper technique

                                            vi.     Cool attraction for beginning climbers.  Not a great option for experienced climbers, though it could be with design changes.

 

    1. Indoor vs. Outdoor

                                               i.     An indoor facility would definitely see more use throughout the year.

1.     An indoor facility will likely require a more complicated business model to maintain

2.     May be the cheapest to build…  ¾” plywood with T-nuts and pre-fabricated holds do not need to be weather-proof

3.     Fairgrounds would be an ideal location since this activity would likely overlap with other <ahem> high-risk activity enthusiasts and that location is already closed at dusk.

4.     The PARC building would make another good option since that facility offers the necessary height.

5.     Renovating an old barn may be another low(er) cost solution

 

                                             ii.     An outdoor facility may have lower maintenance costs over the long term, though it won’t have as much use year-round.

1.     Usage may be mitigated by building a free-standing roof overhead

2.     No height restrictions imposed by enclosure.  Other restrictions may be imposed by county or city, though.

3.     Only weather-proof materials may be used…  rock, concrete, gunnite, in combination with pre-fabricated holds

 

  1. Next Steps
    1. Marc Islam

                                               i.     Contact Earthtrex for brochures, pricing, and examples of local installations of their product

                                             ii.     Update Island Rec at their next meeting

1.     How do we find out if there are limitations imposed by their insurance company?

2.     Does minimizing liability exposure dictate that we require people to use their own equipment?  Are we willing to take on some liability exposure (ironically) making the wall safer in providing:

a.     Belay certification

b.     Equipment that is in good working order

                                            iii.     Are there governing standards for constructing climbing walls?  What is the code EN12572 referred to in the Enterprise pamphlet?

                                            iv.     Talk to the Fair Grounds administration…  is there space in one of their buildings for an indoor climbing wall?

 

    1. Justin Blevins

                                               i.     Contact El Dorado for brochures, pricing, and examples of local installations of their product

 

    1. Pete Kilpatrick

                                               i.     Contact Enterprise for brochures, pricing, and examples of local installations of their product

 

    1. Everyone

                                               i.     Email Marc to sign up for a tour of a local climbing wall.  We need people to visit the following places:

1.     UW Campus climbing wall

2.     Seattle’s Stone Gardens

3.     Seattle or Redmond REI’s pinnacle

4.     Whistler’s climbing wall in BC

5.     Spire Rock in Spanaway

6.     Western Washington University’s climbing wall

 

  1. Next Meeting will be Tuesday, May 29th at 5:30.  Location TBD

 

 

Please contact Marc Islam for questions/comments at marc@keithp.com or by phone at 360.317.5377